• samsonious: WoW Machine

    Characters: Dwarfbearpig[85] Olena[83] Mylith[82] Wachovia[75]
    Created: 2009-12-10 12:13:52

    I've been tasked with building my brother a "fancy" new machine for xmas. Other than social networking and other menial tasks the machines purpose will be WoW.

    He currently has a terrible machine and was happy the other day he was managing to get a stable 12fps, just to give you some background heh.

    Basically it doesn't have to be and will not be a BEAST. To do some casual reading, catch me up and because im lazy i bought custom pc magazine the other day which contained a feature to build this.

    CPU = 2.8GHz AMD Athlon X2 240
    CPU Cooler = Artic Cooler Freezer 64 PRO PWM
    Motherboard = MSI 770-C45
    Memory = 2gb Corsair Dominator XMS3 PC3-12800
    GPU = 896MB Gainward Geforce GTX 260
    Hard disk = 320GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.11
    PSU = Corsair CX400W
    Case = Silverstone PS02
    Optical Drive = Samsung SH-D162D

    At the moment thats pretty much what i'm going to buy with the exception of the graphics card. Mainly because specifically the graphics card is my xmas present to him and thats too expensive for me :) but also because the features intention was to have a machine capable of running crysis at pleasing settings and thats overkill.

    Using the rest as a base, or tweaking if you have better suggestions, can anyone advise a graphics card. Im fairly confident i could pick on blindfolded that would improve his current FPS with the new machine over his dirty old box but i'd much prefer my hard earned pennies (yes i'm hard at work now, typing this post) were put to the most effective use as possible.

    Thanks in advance for any input offered. "10g if i level" :) Or an on demand go of Jeeves, even if the rest of the raid says no ;)

    • Carrot: Re: WoW Machine

      Characters: Glorif[85] Heclan[73] Nathrezim[37] Cuchillo[23]
      Created: 2009-12-10 13:55:34

      the features intention was to have a machine capable of running crysis at pleasing settings and thats overkill.


      I would disagree with that. Even a GTX280 can't run Crysis with absolutely all the bells and whistles turned right up to 11 ;).

      What's the cost on this by the way, and could he go any higher? I'd be inclined to go for an Intel Core 2 Duo over an Athlon II X2, but that CPU is only £45 on Scan whereas a Core 2 Duo at the same clock speed will set you back almost twice that, and of course would then require a different motherboard, RAM, possibly CPU etc which is faff.

      If he wants to WoW, i'd *really* recommend boosting the RAM from 2GB to 4GB. WoW is a big memory hog, and does a *lot* of hammering of the disk in your machine especially when you're low on RAM and change areas (so all the textures change). I actually went from 4GB to 8GB in my machine because I was maxing my RAM sometimes playing WoW (nothing else even came close to that), but I am playing it at a high res with max texture resolution.

      If it came to a choice, i'd definitely get the extra RAM over a better CPU. It's also then much easier to follow the guide still, as you'll just get 2x2GB sticks instead of 2x1GB sticks, same brand, model etc etc, and stick them in the same slots.

      For a graphics card, how much cash were you wanting to spend? I've had a look, and it seems that an 896MB GTX 260 is about £135. I have a 512MB 4870 (ATI rather than nVidia) in my machine and have been more than happy with it (one of those can be picked up for a little under £100) but a lot of people would rather have the 1GB version, and that's about the same price as the GTX 260. You're only saving a tenner or so, and at that i'd just get the 260. Anything below either of those 2 and Crysis is going to start having issues.
      Wash: This is going to get pretty interesting.
      Mal: Define interesting...
      Wash: Oh god, oh god, we're all going to die?

      • samsonious: Re: Re: WoW Machine

        Characters: Dwarfbearpig[85] Olena[83] Mylith[82] Wachovia[75]
        Created: 2009-12-10 14:35:29

        I said crysis with pleasing not amazing, it was reporting 25fps with mid to high settings i think once overclocked, anyway crysis is irrelevant as its wow only. Heh.

        The article picked that CPU with the intention of overclocking it and have it comfortably running at 3.5ghz so to be honest i may still stick with that. Budget is pretty tight unfortunately so i've less flexibility but i did notice earlier that the 2 x 2GB Ram wasn't too much more expensive and that it should probably be got instead.

        I'm not entirely sure what my budget is for a graphics card and was avoiding mentioning a price to not unfairly sway opinions one way or another. Mainly looking for value for money in that department, for example if my i had given a budget of X but for X + trivial amount i could get something so much more worthwhile i'd be more than happy to up my limit. Was just wondering if there was a sweet spot for less since "fancy games" aren't required.

        Input on potential improvements that are out of budget are still welcome though as i will take them on board when inevitably putting myself together one after using whatever i build him until xmas :) I was on a crappy ATI x1200??? yesterday with settings quite low pushing 20fps. And on a 40inch screen bad graphics are bad hehe.

        • Carrot: Re: Re: Re: WoW Machine

          Characters: Glorif[85] Heclan[73] Nathrezim[37] Cuchillo[23]
          Created: 2009-12-10 15:11:32

          I know very little about overclocking, so i won't comment on that front ;) From where I was looking (Scan) the RAM was £58 for 2x1GB and £113 for 2x2GB. What were you seeing as 'Not much more expensive'?

          For value for money i'd go with a 512MB 4870. As I said, it's what i'm running. And the very reason I went with that over an nVidia at the time was because nVidias, while slightly more powerful, were significantly more expensive. Where were you looking to buy all these parts from?
          Wash: This is going to get pretty interesting.
          Mal: Define interesting...
          Wash: Oh god, oh god, we're all going to die?

        • samsonious: Re: Re: Re: WoW Machine

          Characters: Dwarfbearpig[85] Olena[83] Mylith[82] Wachovia[75]
          Created: 2009-12-10 15:42:34

          Bah, it was scan when i saw the "not much more expensive". Obviously doesn't work trying to cheekily check scan at work :) I was looking at the ones on today only which i see now do not say XMS3 and are 90ish. 50% extra price for 100% extra GB. But I'm going to assume the lack of "XMS3" is some kind of value ram?

          See this is why i bought the mag in the first place lol. I've not even looked at hardware for an age so i don't understand all these secret letters lol.

          Was only thinking Scan as i can go pick up so don't get screwed over with missing a delivery or it taking ages to arrive etc.

          Any places i can buy 512MB 4870? On scan i'm only seeing the 1GB.

        • Carrot: Re: Re: Re: WoW Machine

          Characters: Glorif[85] Heclan[73] Nathrezim[37] Cuchillo[23]
          Created: 2009-12-10 17:26:35

          I saw it on overclockers, but they only actually had the one model there. XFX IIRC:

          http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-143-XF

          Don't forget to check that the PSU you want to get has enough power connectors for whatever graphics card you buy, though if that one will take a GTX 260 it *should* take a 4870... o.0

          XMS is Corsair's double plus good range. IIRC it actually refers to the fact that the RAM has heat spreaders on it to allow you to overclock it without overheating (Xpanded Memory System or somesuch crap acronym). It's what i've got in my machine. The 3 is the important bit. The motherboard you've listed only takes the new DDR3 type RAM. XMS3 is DDR3 XMS RAM. My machine is a little older, so the motherboard and CPU take DDR2 and consequently my machine has 8GB XMS2 in it. I believe I got 4GB XMS2 for about £60 from Scan a few months back, when I went from 4-8 (I certainly saw the price and went 'Holy crap that's cheap!'). unfortunately DDR2 and DDR3 aren't cross-compatible.

          Given that (IIRC) an Athlon II X2 will only run DDR3 RAM in dual channel mode you're not actually getting *that* much of a benefit over DDR2 (it's main benefit comes with the new Intel core i7s where you can run it triple channel, i.e. 3x2GB for 6GB total for e.g.). You might actually end up about the same overall cost if you went for a Core 2 Duo but then only had to get DDR2 RAM (and got 4GB of it), as the Core 2 series only do DDR2. However once again you then get into the hairyness of not knowing if all the parts are known to work well together, how well it'll overclock etc etc. The advantage of following an article like the one you have is that someone else has done all the testing first.

          I'm really paranoid about recommending you get massively different hardware just in case it turns out I missed something and it's not compatible with some other part you've bought. It seems like every bit of hardware (particularly motherboards) come with a massive list of other parts they're 'known to support' and even getting a slightly different model part from the same vendor can cause issues if you're planning to overclock.
          Wash: This is going to get pretty interesting.
          Mal: Define interesting...
          Wash: Oh god, oh god, we're all going to die?

        • samsonious: Re: Re: Re: WoW Machine

          Characters: Dwarfbearpig[85] Olena[83] Mylith[82] Wachovia[75]
          Created: 2009-12-11 11:13:31

          Thanks for all the input btw, really appreciate it and will take most of it onboard with my inevitable purchase of a machine, especially since the missus is now stealing my laptop for WoWage, mwhahaha.

          Did some googling and XMS = good, none XMS = bad. Meh. Just to throw a spanner in the works i then noticed that another almost identical looking product existed, http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/4GB-(2x2GB)-Corsair-XMS3-DDR3-PC3-12800-(1600)-240-Pin-Non-ECC-Unbuffered-CAS-9-9-9-24-XMP

          As far as i can see this is exactly the same as £100+ stuff with the exception of 1 word, DOMINATOR. ARGH, why must there be so many variants lol.

          Basically, i can't find out with googling (my search skills fail me) what dominator offers that the other doesnt. I'm sure its all magical and whatever, but if anyone is even slightly aware, is 2gb of DOMINATOR!!!!! better than 4gb of "super inferior, it must be it doesnt say dominator".

        • Carrot: Re: Re: Re: WoW Machine

          Characters: Glorif[85] Heclan[73] Nathrezim[37] Cuchillo[23]
          Created: 2009-12-11 11:33:49

          Dominator means it has slightly better heat spreaders on it (note that the dominator heat spreaders are larger and have fins/vanes at the top whereas the non-dominator stuff just has standard solid metal heat spreaders on the chips). Dominator also has slightly better timings for CAS, RAS to CAS etc etc.

          As such, if you're planning on overclocking your front side bus a fair bit to push your RAM speed up as well as the CPU, and/or you want the absolute tightest timings you can get for RAM speed, Dominator will benefit you. Otherwise, just go with the standard XMS3. It's still not value RAM or anything. Corsair is a good brand even on their value stuff, and XMS is their high end RAM. XMS Dominator is just the highest of the high end that they do. I don't know the details of the overclock that the magazine is telling you about, so I don't know if you'll be OK with the standard stuff. Also the motherboard you get can affect what timings you'll be able to run stably. Once again this is a case of presumably they've tested the kit they're telling you to get, so know it's all nice and compatible.

          Certainly when you're building your own machine if you don't plan to do a big overclock on it just get the standard XMS stuff and save yourself some cash. Even if you do, if you're not following a guide for hardware someone else has tested and knows works you might find the mobo you've got can't stably run the RAM at the timings *it* supports, so you'd be better off just getting the cheaper stuff and dealing with the timings being slightly lower. It still won't be shabby ;)
          Wash: This is going to get pretty interesting.
          Mal: Define interesting...
          Wash: Oh god, oh god, we're all going to die?

        • samsonious: Re: Re: Re: WoW Machine

          Characters: Dwarfbearpig[85] Olena[83] Mylith[82] Wachovia[75]
          Created: 2009-12-11 12:02:43

          :) cheers. I'm thinking 4gb is just generally more future proof than 2.

          Also i keep forgetting potentially the most important thing, amazing is relative. He's somehow running 25 mans on a regular basis basically staring at a flashing turd (and not even a fast flashing turd).

          If i pick up bits and peices tomorrow i can tinker around with it and lower the OC if needs be. Even if i kept it stock im pretty sure he'll be "giddy as a kid at christmas" when he gets it on xmas day ;)

          Ta for the help, hopefully i'll have much more time to poke around when putting mine together, if for no other reason than im fooking skint, so i'll do that one right :)

          Besides, if he gets to have better gear than me i get a better spec, its only fair.

    • daagaak: Re: WoW Machine

      Created: 2009-12-10 14:17:01

      Figured I'd stick my oar in too. I'd /definitely/ go for a Core 2 Duo, not that I keep up with life outside Macs much these days but Intel still appear to have the edge over AMD on power. Worth the money.

      • Carrot: Re: Re: WoW Machine

        Characters: Glorif[85] Heclan[73] Nathrezim[37] Cuchillo[23]
        Created: 2009-12-10 14:22:51

        I did just buy Laura a new machine (I really couldn't be bothered to put it together myself, so I paid someone else to do that. I went for a 2.6 gig Intel Dual Core for £45 over a supposedly higher spec AMD chip. But then Laura's not wanting to play Crysis ;)
        Wash: This is going to get pretty interesting.
        Mal: Define interesting...
        Wash: Oh god, oh god, we're all going to die?